Discussion: whos on the payroll and whos not how and why mdk
So to pick up the discussion we had in the drupaldenmark chatroom
and in the name of the holy transparency im gonna sum up why we need to have positions that are getting some kind off compensation from fondings etc.
I have listed up 2 Roles in the draft for the answers to amye (http://groups.drupal.org/node/28102#comment-96244) that I think needs some kind of comepensation in this whole process.
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Head. The main project manager - We need a person that have the overview etc . To get everything to click in the project.
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Whip Yup i put myself in here, at that role.
To follow up what i said at the last meeting we had before we sended in the proposal. (and why i just put it in the answering of amyes post)
If im gonna be that person with the wip then I need some funding. Im a freelancer, so i dont have a company thats gonna back me up with a monthly paycheck. This will be a problem for me later on when i have to pay rent etc.
I experienced that the amount of hours i put in to get "shit to happend" and fixing stuff was enormous at both drupalcamps. So i dont expect it to be smaller this time.
If anyone elses wanna step up to the plate be my guest then im only gonna put in the amount of "expected" personal time thats outlined in my SPOC roles (swag / social) and not gonna be floating around and getting shit done.
My experience in all kinds of projects is that you need this whip, that gets the ball rolling, else we will all sit there and wait till something happens - yup i dont have fait in stuff just happens
Please comment on this before we send the answer back :)
To be very clear: This not a debate about my person or not - I want this clear from so there are not any sour faces later on in the process.
Maybe the answer is to get some kind of fond that we can tap into?
but then the answer is whos gonna decide that ;)
Im expecting to put in about 10-20 hours a week of freetime anyways, its the rest im worried about.
Lets get it out in the open now:
ready .. - ... Fight ;)
Extra time used...
In my opinion people with positions that require time exceeding what would be expected on volunteer basic must be compensated. But we must at all times have as a goal that this event can be managed using our spare time.
How much compensations we have the possibility to offer to people that put in extra time I don't think we can settle before we have the sponsors.
It also raise a different question. If my company decide to not sponsor DrupalCon (i dont think it wil happen though) then in a sense the company will still be sponsoring the event hence the extra time I might put in the project... how is this compensated?
To sum it up, Im +1 for compensating extra weight that people may carry, but we need to remember that this is community driven and money should not be our motivator.
Wait, what?
As I remember it we were talking about having a more-or-less full-time project-guy who would coordinate stuff – why a second position?
I'm still all for paying someone to make stuff happen, though, so let's figure out what's best :)
I have some considerations
I'm not sure about this.
I generally think, that contributing time to a DrupalCon is like contríbuting time for a core-patch, a theme or a module. I don't think people should be paid for contributions.
However I think, we need a full-time project lead in order to pull this through. And if we find a good candidate for that position within the community, it's maybe stupid to pay someone from the outside. An insider might work harder and have better understanding. But it might skew the community. So - as I said: I'm not sure.
Maybe we should ask someone in the association if there is a precedent, when it comes to hirering people to help at DrupalCons
^^ That's me - I thought I
^^ That's me - I thought I was logged in
Required skillset and sponsoring
Hiring somebody to actually manage organizing of DC is a very good idea. You will need a bit different skills in this person than we usually have in Drupal community. It's still project management, but with a very different project. It's also a full time job for a long time and you can't reasonable expect anyone to do it for free. You have to remember that many people that contribute to Drupal core, themes or modules do actually get paid for doing that - it's just a guestion on who is paying for it. Another key thing in here is to stay on schedule and that can be a very hard thing to do if everybody is in it just for fun.
Zorp brings up an excellent point about sponsoring DrupalCon with money or effort. This is always a difficult question in open soucre community that is based (at least on value level) on volunteering. My experience is that at least with DrupalCamps it is way cheaper for a company just to sponsor them with money than to actually take part in organizing them. This means indirect monetary investment in form of lost income and naturally also paying for their employees and other costs. We have tried to solve this problem in Finnish DrupalCamps by actually creating another category for "sponsors" who make major contributions to make camps happen.
For freelancers and small companies investing their time to organize large events like DrupalCon can be a major investment that only pays back on a very long time. Economics are a bit different for big companies that can actually get their invested money/effort back in just one or two large projects. Personally I am all for both hiring one dedicated person (professional event organizer) for this and for paying also for Morten if (when) he is investing a LOT of his time in this. This might not be a very lucrative business for key organizers, but at least they don't have to live under a bridge just because they ended up organizing a DrupalCon...
Just my five cents from Helsinki.
I'm basically in agreement
I'm basically in agreement with wesku. I think the clear goal is to gather enough cash locally to hire a project manager / event planner person (I went to college with a handful of people who now do these things professionally). It sounds like the other cities are planning on the DA to step up and funnel cash into the local organizers, but it's my understanding that this is not going to happen (not do I think it should). I do not think we will find this person in the Drupal community.
If we can gather up more cash—and I think we should try to make that a goal—I'm for hiring a second person who is close to the Drupal community to handle whipping and the more on the ground tasks that a project manager isn't hired to do. I'm thinking somewhere between 10 and 15 hours a week.
DC con spent
The DC team spent approximately 30.000 USD on pre event planning and help during event.. thats around DKK 150.000
Well it wont give us a professional project manager full time but we can get some amount of help.
We just have to raise more sponsor dope to be able to buy even more help.
DC numbers: http://dc2009.drupalcon.org/news/drupalcon-dc-numbers-community-profit-a... (thanks morten for putting it in the shoutbox)
@mikl yup but as i said to
@mikl yup but as i said to that meeting as well if its me that gonna be the anchor/whip on this project i need some funding. Else I would be bankrubt just after Drupalcon.
If copenhagen dont think we need me as anchorpoint / whip / whatever then its okay with me I will not take up that role then. I hope then another will take fill it up, cause it wont happen unless we have that person - I know im putting myself up on a pedestal - but so be it ;)
@johs
This is like submitting a patch and working on a module, and it is expected that a project like this is gonna cost some weekly hours but this is gonna be a hell of a lot of freetime.
How many here have projects they dont have part sponsored by their jobs?.
Now as a freelancer I dont have a sugerdady (or an employer) that I can negotiate a good deal with, or having the company working out a deal with DA about sponsorship that could pay for some of the workload. -even that its tempting geek Röyale dont gain a lot by being "major super duper über platinium sponsor" ;) that wont pay the bills.
I dont have any numbers right now at the amount of hours that will be spent, but one thing is sure, its gonna be shitloads - setting up the last 3 day drupalcamp was around 100+ hours for me personally (not counting the 3 others that was in the inner planning group)
The word from Paris was that they were 1 full time employed, and 2 half time which was pretty much payed by one company.
We shouldn't expect the DA to pony up the $ (thats made clear in the first drafts) but we need to figure this out soon.
If it means that my we should hold a "sponsor morten" fund raiser, im all for that... But I really dont think thats the way it should be done (and even for my ego its a bit to much) + its not about persons, its about figuring out what we really need to get drupalcon to rock & kick ass.
We should be able to get the funding pretty quick, both from local business + diffrent funds: http://drupalcon.dk/planning/node/99
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